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Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
11-06-2009, 05:45 PM
Post: #51
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
DjBabiuk Wrote:Don't use extremists as an example. It's not fair. What the guy did was wrong, he's a scumbag, but don't label a whole religion because of it.

Blame the one man. That's all. After all, there are many other Muslims in the American Armed Forces. Would you dare call them unAmerican because of the colour of their skin or their religion?

DJ,
I understand what you are saying,and agree we should not paint all in Islam as extremists or terrorists. But I can't help but feel very frustrated with the lack of demonstrated outrage that should be coming from the Islamic community in opposition to the ways of the extremists. Perhaps using the moniker "Religion of Peace" is inaccurate in talking about conservative or moderate muslims,and a more appropriate term, such as 'Religion of Silence' or 'Religion of Intimidated' should be used. Are the mainstream Muslims afraid to speak up and be heard? Are they cowed by the bomb throwing,suicidal splinter groups of the religion? Why are they silent?

Had the Major done his dirty work with no reference to the accepted mantra of the extremists,i.e. 'Allah Akbar',then I would have concluded that this was a man who had lost his mind. Now I wonder how long this had been planned.

Perhaps the true 'Religion of Peace' will send forth representatives or mass statements condemning this act. Hopefully they will get a little backbone and stand up to the extremists and murderers.
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11-06-2009, 06:32 PM
Post: #52
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
DjBabiuk Wrote:Don't use extremists as an example. It's not fair. What the guy did was wrong, he's a scumbag, but don't label a whole religion because of it.

Blame the one man. That's all. After all, there are many other Muslims in the American Armed Forces. Would you dare call them unAmerican because of the colour of their skin or their religion?

I assume you'd be as fired up and defensive about anyone labeling Christians as something? if so, I haven't seen it...the do gooders don't seem offended at attacks at Christians, but you go find an atheist and they get all holier than thou if Muslims are told the truth about. Remember we are talking about radical Islam, and any of them that hates, whether that be America or whomever, is included.
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11-06-2009, 07:35 PM
Post: #53
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
DjBabiuk Wrote:Don't use extremists as an example. It's not fair. What the guy did was wrong, he's a scumbag, but don't label a whole religion because of it.

Blame the one man. That's all. After all, there are many other Muslims in the American Armed Forces. Would you dare call them unAmerican because of the colour of their skin or their religion?

I blame the religion. It provides the framework for extremism and collectively does NOTHING to police itself.

And I didn't call anyone unamerican. We have extremists among us just like everyone else. It just so happens that the overwhelming majority of them who perpetrate violence in the name of religion today are Muslims.
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11-06-2009, 07:57 PM
Post: #54
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
Most Muslims aren't terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.
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11-06-2009, 08:06 PM
Post: #55
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
Pre-traumatic-stress-syndrom?
  • He was born in Virginia but wrote he was from Palestine
  • His MOS was a Healthcare position meaning he wasn't going to be in a planned combat position
  • He got a free ride on his college
  • He had received 'counseling' for telling soldiers they shouldn't fight
  • He was under investigation by the FBI for web and chat room comments
  • He had been trying to get out of deployment
From http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/11/...lik-hasan/




Posted by Streiff (Profile)
Friday, November 6th at 4:30PM EST


The murder of thirteen US soldiers and the wounding of thirty others at Fort Hood, Texas, yesterday is an unprecedented even in the history of the US military. It marks the first time in the history of the republic that a commissioned officer in the Armed Forces has turned his weapon on American troops.
Probably the closest thing the US Army has experienced prior to this in its history occurred in July 1867 when Captain Thomas Custer, acting under orders from his brother, Lieutenant Colonel George Custer, tracked down three deserters, wounding two and killing one. Where Lieutenant William Calley and Captain John Compton participated in mass murders (347 Vietnamese civilians at My Lai on March 16, 1968 and 40 Italian prisoners of war at Biscari, Sicily on July 14, 1943, respectively) the victims were not their own troops.
The murderous rampage of Dr. Nidal Malik Hasan has entered the annals of military history as a unique betrayal of the traditional relationship between an officer — and a physician — and the men entrusted to his care by virtue of his rank.
Did it have to happen?

The past six years have been a watershed for the American military. It has demonstrated conclusively that it can match insurgents on the battlefield, develop civil infrastructure out of whole cloth, and recruit a volunteer force while embroiled in two wars. Unfortunately, it has also failed.
The virtue of the American military has always been its ability to take whatever manpower that was available and make from it a soldier (used here generically to describe a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine) loyal to the republic even when the individual loyalty of the individuals might have been nebulous. Confederate prisoners became “galvanized Yankees” on the frontier freeing up Federal troops to fight their own kinsmen. German immigrants fought in France in World War I and II. We are all familiar with the 442 Regimental Combat Team and the 100th Battalion formed from Japanese-Americans and their courageous service in Europe. Native Americans, with no great reason to love the American government, did love the Army and fought with as scouts, line infantrymen, and Code Talkers.
What has happened in the past 6 years is that assurance that the men in uniform were if not loyal Americans at least loyal to their comrades has been shattered.
The tip of the iceberg appeared in 1998 with the arrest of former Special Forces sergeant Ali Mohammed, a former major in the Egyptian army before immigrating to the United States and joining the US Special Warfare Center at Fort Bragg, NC.
In September 2004 SFC Abdullah Webster was sentenced to prison for refusing to deploy to Iraq. Testifying on behalf of Sergeant Webster was Air Force Chaplain (Captain) Hamza Al-Mubarak who claimed it was better for Webster to die than to fight fellow muslims.
In 2003 Army Chaplain (Captain) James Yee was arrested and charged with espionage and sedition based on his dealings with al-Qaeda prisoners at Guantanamo. He avoided court martial because the government was concerned with classified information that might come out at trial. His assistant, Airman Ahmad al-Halabi, was convicted by a court martial. Civilian translator Ahmed Fathy Mehalba, also stationed at Guantanamo, was arrested and convicted at the same time.
In 2004 Army Specialist Amir Abdul Rashid was arrested, and eventually sentenced to life in prison, for providing sensitive information to al-Qaeda.
In 2008 Navy Signalman Hassan Abu Jihaad was sentenced to ten years for divulging classified information to al-Qaeda.
And no one can forget that on March 23, 2003, the eve of our invasion of Iraq, Army Sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar tossed a hand grenade into the command post of 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division killing two officers and wounding fourteen others including the brigade commander. He is now on death row at the US Disciplinary Barracks and presumably will soon have the services of his own private shrink.
This list doesn’t include the numerous John Walker Lindhs and Adam Gadahns out there. They, at least, made their sympathies plain.
Obviously, it is unfair to tar all muslims in the military through association with this short, yet impressive, list of muslims who have betrayed their uniform and their country. There is no doubt that many muslims serve this nation in uniform and do so honorably.
But at some point a frank conversation needs to take place on what it means when the nation can no longer rely on one identifiable demographic to uphold the oath they have taken. More importantly it calls into question the impact on combat readiness when there is a perception that muslim soldiers in your unit are as likely to kill you as they are to kill the enemy.
Clearly it is a very touchy subject. One of our most enduring myths is that America was founded on the idea of religious freedom and religious discrimination is one of the vices that we’ve largely abandoned as a people.
During World War II we didn’t commission Japanese nationalists or ardent Nazis. During th Cold War we did our best to not commission members of the Communist Party. The reasons were obvious. Holding a commission confers certain privileges, while the odd Nazi or commie in the ranks might not be a threat a commissioned officer who took his oath “with purpose of reservation and evasion” is a significant danger. Oddly enough, in the case of Major Hasan, Article IV Section 3 of the US Constitution would allow him to serve as a commissioned officer in the military even if a decision were made to bar muslims from enlisting in the Armed Forces.
One of the enduring fallacies of the Bush Administration’s prosecution of the War on Terror was the refusal to admit that islam was neither peaceful in nature nor a disinterested observer in the war. This is not to say that all muslims are members of al-Qaeda, but to blithely ignore the religious dimension of the war was simply wrongheaded. To continue to ignore the particular vulnerability of muslim troops and officers to the propaganda on the grounds and label that very unremarkable observation as being racist or xenophobic is a fatal error. As we saw yesterday at Fort Hood.
Major Hasan’s rampage simply brings an issue which should have been addressed years ago back to center stage. Knowing what we know, how to we make sure these incidents of murder and sedition stop? Forever.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/
Nuts!

"Two riders were approaching, the winds began to howl"
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11-06-2009, 10:11 PM
Post: #56
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
warwoman Wrote:DJ,
I understand what you are saying,and agree we should not paint all in Islam as extremists or terrorists. But I can't help but feel very frustrated with the lack of demonstrated outrage that should be coming from the Islamic community in opposition to the ways of the extremists. Perhaps using the moniker "Religion of Peace" is inaccurate in talking about conservative or moderate muslims,and a more appropriate term, such as 'Religion of Silence' or 'Religion of Intimidated' should be used. Are the mainstream Muslims afraid to speak up and be heard? Are they cowed by the bomb throwing,suicidal splinter groups of the religion? Why are they silent?

Had the Major done his dirty work with no reference to the accepted mantra of the extremists,i.e. 'Allah Akbar',then I would have concluded that this was a man who had lost his mind. Now I wonder how long this had been planned.

Perhaps the true 'Religion of Peace' will send forth representatives or mass statements condemning this act. Hopefully they will get a little backbone and stand up to the extremists and murderers.

Herein lies the problem, and it's a major problem in the study of religion, especially when it comes to Islam, Sikhism, and a few other of the South Asian religions. While the "ordinary Joe" in these faiths continue to lead a very North American lifestyle, it is the visible few who do these things that draw all the attention. Then, when a Muslim or Sikh tries to explain their religion and denounce it's actions, they are glossed over, simply because it isn't as sensational as an attack. Most mosques will condemn these actions and preach peace, understanding, and love. A great documentary about the trials and tribulations in the modern mosque (including all the negative actions and ideas) is called "Me & The Mosque." It's a real eye-opener on their beliefs if you aren't someone who has studied the religion.

Another major problem is that there is no "Muslim Vatican," for lack of a better term. There is no governing body to denounce or make decisions on everyone's behalf as there is for the Christian Church. There's no PR team, so it is quite difficult.

One must also understand the difference between the fundamentalist Muslim, Sikh, and Christian, and those who make up all other aspects of followers. These militant few do not represent the faith as a whole, and there are actually very few in North America. In fact, if you look at the Sikh religion, you may wonder why so many work in the airports, or as a police officer. Many will choose one of these lower paying jobs as it is a means to service and protect the community, as protecting the community (including those of other race and faith) is a great honour for those following their Khalsa orders, held in higher regard than those who make greater wages and don't help the community.

If you were to listen to your local mosques or gurdwaras, and there is always at least one in the major cities, they will have announcements regarding these actions and will denounce it. It's just difficult to go out with it, because they will hammered from all sides...by extreme Muslims, by Christians, by everyone, all for a variety of reasons. It really is quite hard in the post-9/11 day and age.

Bah, I kind of went off on a rant. Sorry.
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11-06-2009, 10:33 PM
Post: #57
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
Stormlover Wrote:Most Muslims aren't terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.

Timothy McVeigh
Terry Nichols
The ALF
The IRA
Theodore Kaczynski
Jewish Defense League
Sons of Freedom
Lord's Resistance Army
Ku Klux Klan
Army of God
FLQ
MS-13
Hell's Angels

These, clearly, are all scary, scary Muslims.
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11-06-2009, 11:02 PM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2009 11:03 PM by LSU TIGERS.)
Post: #58
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
DjBabiuk Wrote:Herein lies the problem, and it's a major problem in the study of religion, especially when it comes to Islam, Sikhism, and a few other of the South Asian religions. While the "ordinary Joe" in these faiths continue to lead a very North American lifestyle, it is the visible few who do these things that draw all the attention. Then, when a Muslim or Sikh tries to explain their religion and denounce it's actions, they are glossed over, simply because it isn't as sensational as an attack. Most mosques will condemn these actions and preach peace, understanding, and love. A great documentary about the trials and tribulations in the modern mosque (including all the negative actions and ideas) is called "Me & The Mosque." It's a real eye-opener on their beliefs if you aren't someone who has studied the religion.

Another major problem is that there is no "Muslim Vatican," for lack of a better term. There is no governing body to denounce or make decisions on everyone's behalf as there is for the Christian Church. There's no PR team, so it is quite difficult.

One must also understand the difference between the fundamentalist Muslim, Sikh, and Christian, and those who make up all other aspects of followers. These militant few do not represent the faith as a whole, and there are actually very few in North America. In fact, if you look at the Sikh religion, you may wonder why so many work in the airports, or as a police officer. Many will choose one of these lower paying jobs as it is a means to service and protect the community, as protecting the community (including those of other race and faith) is a great honour for those following their Khalsa orders, held in higher regard than those who make greater wages and don't help the community.

If you were to listen to your local mosques or gurdwaras, and there is always at least one in the major cities, they will have announcements regarding these actions and will denounce it. It's just difficult to go out with it, because they will hammered from all sides...by extreme Muslims, by Christians, by everyone, all for a variety of reasons. It really is quite hard in the post-9/11 day and age.

Bah, I kind of went off on a rant. Sorry.

It's not that simple. Lots of interplaying issues. One of the big ones that you failed to mention is that Islam is not as centralized a religion as most believe. There is no Pope, Southern Baptist Convention, etc to issue such denouncements on behalf of the religion as a whole. No Caliph is willing to go there, in any event.
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11-06-2009, 11:05 PM
Post: #59
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
DjBabiuk Wrote:Timothy McVeigh
Terry Nichols
The ALF
The IRA
Theodore Kaczynski
Jewish Defense League
Sons of Freedom
Lord's Resistance Army
Ku Klux Klan
Army of God
FLQ
MS-13
Hell's Angels

These, clearly, are all scary, scary Muslims.

Of the thousands of acts of terrorism perpetrated in the last 20 years, how many have been non-Muslim?
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11-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Post: #60
Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base
DjBabiuk Wrote:Another major problem is that there is no "Muslim Vatican," for lack of a better term. There is no governing body to denounce or make decisions on everyone's behalf as there is for the Christian Church. There's no PR team, so it is quite difficult.

Lsu Tigers Wrote:It's not that simple. Lots of interplaying issues. One of the big ones that you failed to mention is that Islam is not as centralized a religion as most believe. There is no Pope, Southern Baptist Convention, etc to issue such denouncements on behalf of the religion as a whole. No Caliph is willing to go there, in any event.

Er... what? I know I'm missing something here, so what is it?
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